Clarinets

[Michael Willis]

(07-23-2019, 02:46 AM)Samulis Wrote: with a tuner nearby or drone (quietly) played back over headphones

Do I understand correctly that the purpose of a drone would be to serve as a frame of reference to harmonize against, to avoid a wobbly pitch?

Should I monitor the mic input over the headphones at the same time, or just go by what I can hear from the instrument?

Something weird about playing a wind instrument is that it becomes a sort of extension to your own body. With the mouthpiece so close to the jaw, I'm convinced that the sound resonates through the skull and into the inner ear, so the player hears a different sound than the audience. I feel like it's the same phenomenon that surprises people when they first hear a recording of their own voice; it sounds different from the outside.

[Samulis]

(07-23-2019, 03:04 PM)Michael Willis Wrote:

(07-23-2019, 02:46 AM)Samulis Wrote: with a tuner nearby or drone (quietly) played back over headphones

Do I understand correctly that the purpose of a drone would be to serve as a frame of reference to harmonize against, to avoid a wobbly pitch?

Should I monitor the mic input over the headphones at the same time, or just go by what I can hear from the instrument?

Something weird about playing a wind instrument is that it becomes a sort of extension to your own body. With the mouthpiece so close to the jaw, I'm convinced that the sound resonates through the skull and into the inner ear, so the player hears a different sound than the audience. I feel like it's the same phenomenon that surprises people when they first hear a recording of their own voice; it sounds different from the outside.

The drone or tuner would help avoid pitch drift and pitch waver, yes. You could change the drone for each note, or use a fixed drone (such as for a diatonic sampling, where it is easy and normal to play in harmony... although note that the 'just intonation' of playing in tune with a drone would be different from the equal tempered sound, so it would need to be lightly tuned in post, but regardless waver would be very well controlled).

I normally do not monitor with headphones, unless I am having trouble hearing the instrument or am concerned about outside noises in far mics. Regardless it is always a good idea to do a few test recordings and listen back to them on headphones before proceeding, to ensure the mic placement is not too close or too far, or in a bad spot as to pick up unwanted resonances or emphasize too much of one aspect of the tone.

I think all instruments sound different to the player- trombones, trumpets, and horns are all the same way. Sitting with the bell facing away from you gives a warmer, fuller sense of the instruments' tone.

[Michael Willis]

Sam, I did another quick experimental sampling. It is just an 8 note diatonic recording in the lowest register with each note repeated four times in staccato. I attempted to set up two narrow-diaphragm condenser mics as a NOS array, and played about two meters away. The room is sound treated, but I'm still getting way more noise than I want from the air conditioner and the street outside. Maybe that can be edited away with a noise reduction plugin.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ye0j2tpis9hv3c...ssion.flac

Please take a listen and let me know if you recommend any adjustments. If I can get a satisfactory sound, I think I'll do a thorough sampling.

[Samulis]

Yes, the outside noise is pretty bad- in general I wouldn't recommend sampling with less than 50 dB of dynamic range (from loudest peak to average noise floor). Currently I observed the noise floor to be around -40 dB, and the highest peak to be around 0 dB (seems to actually clip on the left channel). If I add a highpass at around 100 Hz or so to remove the low rumble from the AC and street, I can improve the noise performance to about -48 dB, but it's still pretty on the edge, even if I used noise reduction. Even removing the low end, there is still a fair amount of broad spectrum noise, which is either the result of the AC or potentially the noise floor of your preamps.

Therefore I would suggest you move the mics closer, maybe to 1 - 1.2m. There is still a lot of 'room tone' (note the particularly resonant-sounding mids) to the audio, even with treatment, so you can afford to be closer. I would also go to any length possible to disable the AC, or record when it is off, as that will probably get you 10-30 dB of extra dynamic range, at least, so long as your mics and preamp can keep up. Either way, reducing distance will increase the pressure level of the clarinet's sound at the mics, especially relative to outside sounds, which will in turn allow you to use less gain and thus have a greater dynamic range/lower noise floor.

Also be cognizant of the source locations of noise. Keeping the street/window behind your cardioid or supercardioid mics may reduce the noise floor by as much as 10 dB compared to if the mics are facing towards it. Recording during quieter hours is also a good suggestion.

Remember that noise reduction is a destructive process. Although it can make a noisy recording clean, no matter how complex or capable the algorithm, it always removes some 'good' data too.

[Michael Willis]

Sam, I think I've found the perfect place to record! Today I co-opted my Love's walk-in closet...

With all of those shirts, skirts, and dresses hung up on one side, and then the blanket that I tacked to the wall on the other side, I think the noise floor was the lowest of any recording I've ever done. I'm super excited about this, here's a mono recording for a (decidedly non-symphonic) piece that I'm working on. If you find the noise floor satisfactory, I'll try setting up a stereo mic pair for sampling.

For the record, I didn't get in trouble. She walked by, gave me a weird look, and said, "Trying to get away from the AC?"

Edit: hrm, after reviewing it again, I can't help but hear some low noises. Next time I shouldn't sit on the yoga ball while recording.

[Samulis]

Much better noise level! You now have about 50-55 dB of dynamic range, about 15 dB better than before, and if I put a highpass on that, probably 55-60. I stuck some stereo reverb on the track to get a feel for how it might sound in stereo, and it's pretty good!

Yes, haha, I think the yoga ball is not quite quiet enough. XD

You may want to try both ORTF/NOS and XY, as when you get close to an instrument while recording in a 'deadened' space like a closet, sometimes the wider patterns sound strange. Use your ears to decide what you think sounds most 'real' to you.

[Nayrb]

(09-01-2019, 02:29 AM)Michael Willis Wrote: Sam, I think I've found the perfect place to record! Today I co-opted my Love's walk-in closet...

Closets are where I did the majority of my recording when I was making music with vocals.

[Nayrb]

So, if I want to double violins in a high register in unison or octaves, is that a job for the Eb clarinet? What about the Bb in this context? I think we might have discussed this somewhere else, but I don't recall where...

Alpine has a free Eb clari, but I noticed that it's actually derived from bass clarinet samples. I suppose it doesn't really matter if it does the job, but I'd be curious to know what others thought of that.

[Michael Willis]

(02-07-2020, 04:36 AM)Nayrb Wrote: Eb clarinet?

I started playing Bb clarinet in fifth grade, and didn't know that Eb clarinet existed until I watched Fanfare Ciocarlia on NPR's tiny desk series . I found myself thinking, "There's something different about that guy's clarinet, what is it?" After looking around a little bit I learned about the Eb clarinet and the even smaller Ab clarinet.

Clarinets have more range than any other standard orchestral woodwind. As such, even a Bb clarinet can go pretty high. Intermediate clarinetists using Bb clarinet can play about two octaves higher than a concert middle C. Advanced clarinetists can play about a half octave (or more) above that, although that extremely high register known as "altissimo" tends to have more harsh overtones and isn't used much in traditional orchestral arrangements (jazz music is a different story). If you want to go that high, you might try an Eb clarinet since those notes are still in its "clarion" register. You might also try to triple the part with a flute or piccolo.

I sometimes think it would be fun to get an Eb clarinet, but I have to admit my motivation is mostly that it looks cute. I have no idea how much I would actually play it.

[Nayrb]

(02-07-2020, 12:32 PM)Michael Willis Wrote:

(02-07-2020, 04:36 AM)Nayrb Wrote: Eb clarinet?

I started playing Bb clarinet in fifth grade, and didn't know that Eb clarinet existed until I watched Fanfare Ciocarlia on NPR's tiny desk series . I found myself thinking, "There's something different about that guy's clarinet, what is it?" After looking around a little bit I learned about the Eb clarinet and the even smaller Ab clarinet.

Clarinets have more range than any other standard orchestral woodwind. As such, even a Bb clarinet can go pretty high. Intermediate clarinetists using Bb clarinet can play about two octaves higher than a concert middle C. Advanced clarinetists can play about a half octave (or more) above that, although that extremely high register known as "altissimo" tends to have more harsh overtones and isn't used much in traditional orchestral arrangements (jazz music is a different story). If you want to go that high, you might try an Eb clarinet since those notes are still in its "clarion" register. You might also try to triple the part with a flute or piccolo.

I sometimes think it would be fun to get an Eb clarinet, but I have to admit my motivation is mostly that it looks cute. I have no idea how much I would actually play it.

Thanks as always for the info. I knew that clarinets could be used in conjunction with violins, in staccato passages for instance, in that upper register; but I wasn't exactly sure which type of clarinet was best suited to that purpose. I guess it just depends on how high you want to go.