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+--- Thread: Experimental samples (/showthread.php?tid=381)
Experimental samples - Mattias Westlund - 04-21-2018
I'm going to use this thread for posting various things that I'm working on, from time to time. Samples posted here are not for redistribution. Personal use is fine of course, but please don't publish them elsewhere.
First off is a violin section that I've been working on for the past few days. You can get it here (~666MB file!). I had a little idea that I wanted to try.
I would be interested to hear your spontaneous thoughts on this, keeping in mind of course that this is a very early version and many tweaks will be necessary. Would you consider this useable? All thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
RE: Experimental samples - Paul Battersby - 04-23-2018
Before I download it to try it, my first thought is to wonder why the file is so large? At 666MB, that one violin section is larger than the entire Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra.
RE: Experimental samples - Mattias Westlund - 04-23-2018
Well... 24-bit files, no loops, chromatic multisampling, 2 velocities, 2x RR. With four articulations, the size adds upp.
Hmm, maybe I should have used FLAC.
RE: Experimental samples - Paul Battersby - 04-24-2018
I finally downloaded your new violin section and tried it out. It sounds good to me but I'm probably pretty easily fooled into thinking a virtual violin sounds real, though hopefully not as easily as a casual listener to music.
The samples seem long enough to make looping unnecessary. I can't imagine it happening often that a longer note than you've provided is needed.
My research tells me that a violin's range is G3 to A7, (if C4 is middle C). Your violin section responds to MIDI notes from G2 to C6 (and you've labelled them that way) but every note plays an octave lower on the keyboard than I think it should (so your range is really G3 to C7 when C4 is middle C). Your G2 is the same pitch as the G3 from Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra for example.
Given the depth of this virtual instrument, I'd be interested to know how you built it. Have you sampled a violin player yourself?
RE: Experimental samples - Mattias Westlund - 04-24-2018
Thanks for trying it out Paul! I have gone through a few more revisions since I posted this so hopefully it sounds even better now.
Hm, I used G2 for the lowest note as I thought I had it wrong in SSO; VSCO 2 uses G2 and Sam strikes me as someone who knows what he's doing. So I honestly don't know!
And no, no live violin. Just a lot of creative layering like in SSO, though using the much better samples that are around these days.
RE: Experimental samples - Paul Battersby - 04-24-2018
(04-24-2018, 08:53 PM)Mattias Westlund Wrote: Hm, I used G2 for the lowest note as I thought I had it wrong in SSO; VSCO 2 uses G2
My copy of VSCO2 CE has the first violin note as G3. The last is C7, just like SSO. Does Sam have another violin with a different range?
(04-24-2018, 08:53 PM)Mattias Westlund Wrote: And no, no live violin. Just a lot of creative layering like in SSO, though using the much better samples that are around these days.
You seem to be doing something right then. The violins do sound quite good to me, but I don't know if I'd want an entire orchestra with each instrument being around 668MB x 2 when solo versions are also included, but I imagine the detail you are putting in to this would compete with some of the pro libraries.
I suspect I did hear a few of your violin samples had loops that terminate after a few repeats. I could be mistaken, and I only heard it because I've spent too much time listening very hard to loop points in my own samples. I mention it because I'm curious to see if my hearing is right. Those former loops (if it's really what I'm hearing) are audible only when really trying hard to perceive them, perhaps trying too hard.
RE: Experimental samples - Samulis - 04-24-2018
VSCO 2 uses C3=60 notation for compatibility with Kontakt and other samplers. C4=60 is the technically more correct "International Pitch Notation", but since most Japanese/Asian hardware samplers used C3=60, it has caught on in the sampler world. So long as you map the C3 to 60, it will be in the right range regardless of the system, but if you map it to IPN C3, or 48, it will be an octave low.
RE: Experimental samples - Mattias Westlund - 04-25-2018
(04-24-2018, 11:07 PM)Paul Battersby Wrote: You seem to be doing something right then. The violins do sound quite good to me, but I don't know if I'd want an entire orchestra with each instrument being around 668MB x 2 when solo versions are also included, but I imagine the detail you are putting in to this would compete with some of the pro libraries.
Well, <1GB for a whole section is actually tiny in this day and age, and with a sampler that supports disk streaming like Kontakt or Sforzando/ARIA it shouldn't be a problem even on systems with more limited RAM. That said, I haven't decided whether I should actually use chromatic sampling, right now I'm just rendering everything with highest possible detail. If I want to use, say, minor thirds instead, I could just put together a mapping that skips the notes inbetween.
(04-24-2018, 11:07 PM)Paul Battersby Wrote: I suspect I did hear a few of your violin samples had loops that terminate after a few repeats. I could be mistaken, and I only heard it because I've spent too much time listening very hard to loop points in my own samples. I mention it because I'm curious to see if my hearing is right. Those former loops (if it's really what I'm hearing) are audible only when really trying hard to perceive them, perhaps trying too hard.
You are quite right; the ldk1609 and VSCO 2 CE violins are not looped and terminate after a few seconds. I will loop everything later, but it makes no sense doing that before I have a finished version of the samples that I'm happy with.
(04-24-2018, 11:30 PM)Samulis Wrote: VSCO 2 uses C3=60 notation for compatibility with Kontakt and other samplers. C4=60 is the technically more correct "International Pitch Notation", but since most Japanese/Asian hardware samplers used C3=60, it has caught on in the sampler world. So long as you map the C3 to 60, it will be in the right range regardless of the system, but if you map it to IPN C3, or 48, it will be an octave low.
Ah, thanks for clearing that up!
RE: Experimental samples - Mattias Westlund - 04-25-2018
New version of the samples, now featuring both 1st and 2nd violins. Using ogg instead of wav for more download-friendly file sizes (225 MB). Both sections still need some more EQ love as they have a high midrangey sound to them as well as some unpleasant harshness in the higher frequencies.
RE: Experimental samples - Mattias Westlund - 04-25-2018
Here's a quick & dirty audio demo of what everything sounds like right now.