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Reception of VCSL/Mini-rant - Samulis - 03-28-2018
Did a little google search for VCSL to see how it is going so far, and it looks like we're off to a "warm" reception at the Linux Musicians forum...
https://www.linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=18333#p91413
https://www.linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=18333#p91422
This is why I said that I sometimes wonder why I even try with this stuff when I can be sure there is someone out there waiting to insult everything I do to no end when it isn't "just right" for their particular desires or whatever. I don't know if it is arrogance, ignorance, or just plain snobbery that is behind words like these, but they're one of the reasons I stopped working on new builds of VSCO 2 CE and generally don't make free VST's anymore myself.
It infuriates me to no end when people speak 'definitively' on things they either know nothing about, haven't bothered to even research in the slightest, or in particular, would never be willing to do themselves. Yes, I am happy to accept critique/suggestions from fellow developers, testers, customers, and reviewers on what could be better (we fixed well over 100 bugs in VSCO 2 Pro and added instruments and features based on reviews and customer requests, for example), but when someone e-mails me or posts somewhere only to say, "well, x is pretty much unusable," with no specific qualms, no visible attempt at reading descriptions or otherwise understanding what they are critiquing, no evidence or argument to support their claim, and no credentials... well...
Serious thanks to Michael for stepping in and explaining things, and thanks to all of you who encourage me to continue with projects like this, as well as all of you out there with open (and commercial) projects of your own. Those are just about the only things that keeps me going aside from the joy of sampling itself.
Anyone else have similar issues or experiences they want to get off their chest?
RE: Reception of VCSL/Mini-rant - Paul Battersby - 03-28-2018
Unfortunately, we seem to be living in a time of entitlement. Where everything should be free and made to our own unspoken specifications, where anonymity makes it very easy to be bluntly and cruelly critical. The internet can be a cruel environment.
I imagine I'd feel the same way you do, if I were seeing my hard work described by anyone as pretty much unusable. There is plenty of evidence that VSCO 2 CE is not unusable. I see people recommending it and anyone who recommends Virtual Playing Orchestra, is also recommending VSCO 2 CE since your samples play a significant part in my library (a fact which is clearly transparent).
I was using SSO, I was testing No Budget Orchestra, and those have been essential to me as well, but it was the VSCO 2 CE that provided the final pieces I needed to convince me to go forward with my own library, built from a combination of other libraries.
So, I've found VSCO 2 CE to be very usable and essential to my own efforts.
RE: Reception of VCSL/Mini-rant - Michael Willis - 03-28-2018
Rawr. I really had to calm down before responding on that forum; my initial thoughts were not nearly so... diplomatic. I was really excited to share your announcement and then found myself bristling at the insulting comments.
There are actually a lot of nice and helpful people on that forum with some great music to share. I've even had some really positive experiences collaborating on projects with some of them. Unfortunately there is also a subculture that seems to spend way more time arguing about ideology and discussing what they think is wrong with everything than making any music.
It's really frustrating because the same people try so hard to evangelise Linux and end up leaving such a bad taste. Then somebody like me gets stuck with a stigma for being a Linux user when I'm mostly just on these forums to share the music creation experience, and I try really hard to not be a loudmouth about the platform I'm using.
I don't remember where I read this quote, or if I'm even getting it right, but here it goes: "Sometimes the internet seems like 15 people trying to actually do something and millions of people waiting to say FAIL."
RE: Reception of VCSL/Mini-rant - Mattias Westlund - 03-28-2018
Sadly this is all too familiar to me. I still vividly remember this dude who posted a long review of SSO early on, only to complain that it wasn't as good as commercial libraries. Well duh...
Also, this:
(03-28-2018, 02:57 PM)Michael Willis Wrote: Unfortunately there is also a subculture that seems to spend way more time arguing about ideology and discussing what they think is wrong with everything than making any music.
That is the exact reason I stopped contributing music to open source games. I even wrote an indignant blog post at some point, complaining about these freetards as I call them, but I never published it. So I definitely sympathize Sam, though I can't really offer any advice beyond "just ignore them".
RE: Reception of VCSL/Mini-rant - Samulis - 03-28-2018
Thanks for your thoughts so far, everyone. Misery always enjoys company, I guess?
Paul, I think you're totally right that the anonymity has something to do with it.
Michael, I think it's definitely easy to fall into the reverse trap of this- to hate an entire community as the result of a few 'quirky detractors'. There are some forums which seem to bug me as a whole, but at the same time, it's really just a few people on them.
Mattias- I seem to recall you possibly posting about the sorts of "feedback" people were giving you for SSO (more like "back seat driving" if I recall), although I could be remembering someone else. Stuff like, "Oh, can you add two other violins? And there needs to be a new harpsichord!" I often fall into the trap of then trying to explain the economies of sampling to these people, which either goes over their head and results in about 2 weeks of daily questions, or accomplishes nothing but disheartening them.
RE: Reception of VCSL/Mini-rant - Mattias Westlund - 03-28-2018
(03-28-2018, 04:46 PM)Samulis Wrote: Mattias- I seem to recall you possibly posting about the sorts of "feedback" people were giving you for SSO (more like "back seat driving" if I recall), although I could be remembering someone else. Stuff like, "Oh, can you add two other violins? And there needs to be a new harpsichord!"
Yeah, that was definitely something I took issue with at the time. Kind of like, I give the world a free and open orchestral sample library (quite possibly the first of its kind) only to have people picking it apart and complaining about what's NOT included, or what THEY think should be included. My choice of using wet samples was a major source of controversy as well, some people even "requested" that I release a dry version of the library. Yeah sure dude, I'll just spend another three months of my free time rendering and splitting/trimming all instruments again... no problem *rolleyes*
RE: Reception of VCSL/Mini-rant - Mattias Westlund - 03-28-2018
Here's what bothers me most about all this. I personally use a lot of freebies, always have. Not because I don't have other options, but becasue some stuff I just like and feel that they add a little something that maybe my commercial libs don't have. Some of these samples may be lacking compared to commercial offerings -- e.g. they may be single velocity -- but do I complain to the authors about this? No. I wouldn't even dream of it, because I feel like I have no right to do so. If someone has graciously decided to give instrument samples away, I can say thanks and use them as is -- working around any potential shortcomings -- or simply not use them, keep my mouth shut and move along. It's common sense really -- something which a lot of people these days are lacking.
Of course, the only possible exception to the above is if the author explicitly asks for feedback to improve the samples. In that case I will happily oblige. Otherwise, I'll settle for "thank you".
RE: Reception of VCSL/Mini-rant - bigcat1969 - 03-28-2018
"Nice work. That piano has a lot of character. When it suddenly stops playing, you know some desperado just entered the saloon."
FLWrd from KVR.
I can be grumpy and complainy, so if I gave you grief as I was exploiting your wonderful work Mattias and Sam, I apologize.
RE: Reception of VCSL/Mini-rant - kneedeep - 03-28-2018
The internet is a gruff, sometimes hateful place. It is too easy to type comments like that into your keyboard at home and forget that you're talking to another human being.
Then again, whenever you expose yourself with work that you've done, some people will wait in the wings to gang up on you and tear it down. It seems that's just human. It has happened to me, because of the stuff I post on my game dev blog. Sometimes there's just someone who knows it all so much better. :-)
Only thing you can do is grow a thick skin, really. And remember that for every asshole on the internet, there are 100 people quietly and gladly using your product. The happy ones don't speak so loudly.
I guess I'll have to try your free orchestra again, Samulis. The early version struck me as good, but not my cup of tea. That's something that can happen. But I do respect anyone who spends their time creating awesome stuff. That's the bottom line. And it was very usable last time I tried it, so that guy on the linux forum just has no idea. Ignore him.
I played around with VPO again as well, it is definitely good. Maybe I'm going to start mixing in a few instruments from those orchestras. I'm just a little afraid of it going out of control if I start to mix several libraries. Probably irrational, I know.
RE: Reception of VCSL/Mini-rant - Mattias Westlund - 03-28-2018
(03-28-2018, 07:43 PM)bigcat1969 Wrote: I can be grumpy and complainy, so if I gave you grief as I was exploiting your wonderful work Mattias and Sam, I apologize.
What? Heavens no! I have never gotten anything but great and positive feedback from you bigcat. I'm talking about random internet punters who, like Sam says, "speak 'definitively' on things they either know nothing about, haven't bothered to even research in the slightest, or in particular, would never be willing to do themselves".