SSO 2.0

[peastman]

It's ready for beta testing!  You can get it from https://github.com/peastman/sso.  Any feedback or bug reports will be very much appreciated.

This is intended to be a drop in replacement for SSO 1.0.  Any instrument that existed before is still there, still has the same file name, and still sounds almost identical to how it did before.  I've made some minor changes such as adjusting note volumes to be more uniform, but mostly I've added new things rather than changing what was already there.

Here are the new features:

• Looped versions of all sustained instruments that didn't already have them (thanks to sig-ex)
  
• Staccato violas (from Mattias)
  
• Staccato oboes, clarinets, and bassoons (adapted from VSCO CE)
  
• Tremolo violins (from Mattias)
  
• Marcato versions of most ensemble sections
  
• Keyswitch files for all instruments with multiple articulations
  

The way I implemented the marcato instruments is similar to what Paul did in VPO, but not identical.  It plays both the staccato and sustained samples.  Adjusting the mod wheel changes the volume of the staccato sample but has no effect on the sustained sample.  That lets you interpolate smoothly between the sustained and marcato articulations.

[Mattias Westlund]

Nice! Downloading

[Mattias Westlund]

I don't have time to listen through everything right now, but a couple of quick remarks:

- Tremolo violins have no loops
- Staccato winds from VSCO doesn't sound anything like their SSO counterparts

Also, I'm not crazy about some of the looped solo instruments; in places they sound like GM patches rather than a dedicated orchestral library. OTOH, I understand that the original versions weren't really optimal for creating loops (which is one of the reasons I didn't loop them to begin with) and it's not possible to work wonders on them I suppose.

[peastman]

Quote: - Tremolo violins have no loops

That's because sig-ex created loops from all the instruments that were in SSO 1.0, but of course the tremolos weren't there.  You could try to convince him to loop them, or perhaps someone else will volunteer to do it?  (But I have no idea how to go about doing it myself, and limited motivation.)

Quote:- Staccato winds from VSCO doesn't sound anything like their SSO counterparts

Suggestions for other versions I could use that would sound closer?

Quote:Also, I'm not crazy about some of the looped solo instruments; in places they sound like GM patches rather than a dedicated orchestral library.

True, but as you say, we take what we can get!  That's why I kept the non-looped versions as the default in the keyswitch files.  The versions with added decay do help, though.  Also, some of the original samples were so short as to be almost useless.  The solo oboe, for example.  In those cases, the looped versions are a huge improvement.

[Mattias Westlund]

Yep, good point. As you intend it to be a drop-in replacement to boot, it's probably not a good idea taking any huge liberties with the original files anyway.

As for looping the trem violins, I'll see what I can do. I don't have any suggestions on better staccato winds from the top of my head though. My main objection (or befuddlement, really) was that if you're going to be adding stuff from different libraries just to fill in the blanks so to speak, why stop there? There are plenty of additional things in VSCO or from other sources that you could put in there... but if you do, why bother with SSO 2.0? There is already VPO which is basically a great amalgam of the two already.

[Mattias Westlund]

Tell you what, if you give me some time, I might be able to provide you with some more fitting staccatos (using the same stage ambience as the original SSO samples, if nothing else). It'll probably be a week or two though.

[peastman]

Quote:My main objection (or befuddlement, really) was that if you're going to be adding stuff from different libraries just to fill in the blanks so to speak, why stop there?

From my perspective, the absolutely essential articulations for most sections are sustain, marcato, and staccato.  Trills and tremolos and such are special effects, but if you don't have those three, it's really hard to create an expressive line.  So that's why I wanted to have them for all instruments.

Quote:Tell you what, if you give me some time, I might be able to provide you with some more fitting staccatos (using the same stage ambience as the original SSO samples, if nothing else). It'll probably be a week or two though.

That would be awesome!   No hurry about it.

[Mattias Westlund]

(04-09-2017, 09:54 PM)peastman Wrote: From my perspective, the absolutely essential articulations for most sections are sustain, marcato, and staccato.  Trills and tremolos and such are special effects, but if you don't have those three, it's really hard to create an expressive line.  So that's why I wanted to have them for all instruments.

Yep, definitely agreed as far as basic articulations go. But since you mention "an expressive line", not having an articulation is IMHO preferable to having one that jumps out and sounds nothing like the other samples in the middle of a passage. Which is the reason I decided to forego some things in the original SSO. Yes, I could have faked (e.g.) clarinet staccatos with ADSR-doctored sustain samples... but since a staccato clarinet doesn't actually sound like a truncated sustained clarinet I said -- hey! Screw that. Better to have stuff that is there and sounds convincing than having x amount of fake-sounding synth-style articulations. Anyone can cobble together a fake staccato patch from the existing samples anyway, right?

So, while I feel like I shouldn't get too involved in this (I lack time, and enthusiasm); if this is going to be presented as SSO 2.0 with my blessing I'm going to have to ask for some overall quality control and bigger picture thinking. Not so much because it's a big deal to me personally -- I have hardly used SSO for anything, ever, aside from proof of concept type demos -- but I guarantee you that once people start finding little details that they don't like about this new version, it's ME they'll be complaining to, even if I had hardly anything to do with it.

Sorry for being kind of a a dick about all this peastman, I definitely appreciate your efforts. But from my perspective it's not as simple as re-releasing everything with a bunch of tweaks, that doesn't warrant a 2.0 IMO.

[peastman]

I know how that is!  Once you create a project, you can never really separate yourself from it.  

Another idea I had was to mix in a bit of the sustain sample, with the idea that the combination of the two would be more convincing.  Because I think the VSCO samples do work pretty well for creating the marcato articulations.  You still mostly hear the SSO sound, but with the added breath/squeaks/buzz you get in a sharp attack.  So possibly a similar approach could be used to create a staccato sound that matches the sustain sound, while also sounding like an instrument actually being played staccato.

But if you're willing to create proper samples, that's even better.

[Samulis]

You could try batch processing the VSCO 2 samples with reverb and an EQ and probably a stereo width change (Mattias, if I remember correctly, you favor mono/thin woodwinds?).

Don't forget about that harpsichord I sampled just for you. You don't want me to make Bigcat take it!

I would recommend avoiding combining instruments unless a section is desired- the CE sample set is now mostly un-phaselocked so it will sound like a different instrument when combined with other instruments.

One thing we did have success with in VSCO 2 was combining a staccato and sustain from the same instrument (in our case, mapping the staccato to key velocity (with a low key velocity instead increasing sample attack slightly) and the sustain to modwheel, so the two may be used separately to create accents or the lack thereof as needed). While I doubt that approach is within the perview of what you are doing, something like it may be used to create accented notes (like Paul worked towards in VPO).