Getting back into Composition

[Nayrb]

(03-19-2017, 07:15 PM)Samulis Wrote:

(03-19-2017, 06:41 PM)Nayrb Wrote: Sounding good! Love the bass; totally unexpected. I really enjoy your obsession with AoE and totally encourage you to continue making original music in that style.

Thanks Nayrb! I guess it's just because I'm currently a bit in a lost stage of my development as an artist and it was something from my childhood that I greatly enjoyed and functioned as an outlet for my creativity for years. I can't really explain it all any other way.

I'm the same way; I'm all for going back to one's roots! For one thing  it's a good way to see how we've progressed as individuals. I still love certain music that I loved when I was a kid but now I understand a great deal more about what made it so great. When I was a young kid (in the mid 90s) I was enamored by the creative possibilities of samplers and synths as I heard them in games and media, and even though I knew nothing about them and wasn't even a musician yet, I knew it was something I wanted to get into one day; and here I am! Though I'm not old enough to have too much practical experience with a lot of the older technology, I certainly have plenty of listening experience. So I, too, have a soft spot for the older stuff. I would say it's a lasting and genuine interest in the whole world of samplers and synths and virtual orchestration.

[Mattias Westlund]

(03-19-2017, 11:04 PM)Nayrb Wrote: I'm the same way; I'm all for going back to one's roots! For one thing  it's a good way to see how we've progressed as individuals. I still love certain music that I loved when I was a kid but now I understand a great deal more about what made it so great. When I was a young kid (in the mid 90s) I was enamored by the creative possibilities of samplers and synths as I heard them in games and media, and even though I knew nothing about them and wasn't even a musician yet, I knew it was something I wanted to get into one day; and here I am! Though I'm not old enough to have too much practical experience with a lot of the older technology, I certainly have plenty of listening experience. So I, too, have a soft spot for the older stuff. I would say it's a lasting and genuine interest in the whole world of samplers and synths and virtual orchestration.

Well said. Even though I was definitely around and making music when hardware samplers were all the rage, I've never owned one. I was more into guitar amps and stuff in those days. It wasn't until I got my first PC back in the late nineties that I discovered the whole "faking an orchestra with midi" thing, and to this day it fascinates me. But I have to say that the obsession with realism in sample libraries has gotten completely out of hand, to the point where it's more about the tech than the music. I for one would rather listen to a well-crafted VO piece from the old days -- like something from Morrowind, where the notes and arrangement was most important, where limitations of the technology were worked around, and some suspension of disbelief was required -- than the trailer music tripe of today where the focus lies on playing bland music with ultra-realistic instruments.

I'm learning more and more though that going back to one's roots, exploring them and doing retro stuff is more about getting a greater understandning of the music that made you who you are as a musician rather than trying to stay in the past.

[Samulis]

Look at those classic MIDI's... it's absolute artistry. There is a completely lost art of playing with pitch bend that is so musical and impressive that I really want to explore, and the use of panning, although often totally against realism or common sense, is very cool.

I'm definitely going to keep working on these pieces (and clean up transitions- this is just a quick sketch). I'm happy to have started this little discussion, and I totally feel at home exploring the roots of the music I love. I grew up playing flash games online and the musical styles of the other Newgrounds musicians (Edgen, Bosa, BAB, Step, etc.) most of whom are now long forgotten. The musical styles I developed back in my early years (2010-2014) were very tightly linked to that community and I realize in retrospect that the rise of modern trailer music caused such a schism stylistically with everything I knew about music (i.e. flash game "epic" music, a particular strain that is now rapidly going extinct).

This Waterflame piece is the epitome of the Flash game "epic" "School"-
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/91476

Compared to what we can do today (I'm pretty sure it was done using BAB's soundfont collection), it's not much worth mentioning, but it's a particular flavor of music that totally captivated me as a kid.

I have kept a complete archive of my musical progress on NG. I like to look back at my old stuff; it doesn't feel like I wrote it at all most of the time. Sometimes I wonder what the heck I was thinking, other times I am mildly impressed.
http://samulis.newgrounds.com/audio/

Here are a few entertaining snapshots (chronologically):
Starting: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/305664 (I learned how to write from scratch)
2 Months: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/319242 (I learned how to have a motif)
4 Months: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/334153 (I learned about dynamics... did I mention I had a thing for English horn?)
6 Months: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/338655 (first usage of formal structure and decent orchestration)
6 Months: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/351556 (this is going to bite me in the ass some day, so it might be now)
1.1 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/397354 (started using EWQL and went through a "fanfare" phase)
1.2 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/397376 (first appearance of Chugga-Chugga Cellos - and the start of my "epic" phase)
1.3 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/404253 (we're starting to move from a more polyphonic mindset to a more homophonic (all non-melody voices play chords together) one, but the brass + strings polyphony at 1:30 is still there)
1.4 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/415284 (I was REALLY obsessed with Romans...)
1.6 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/438135 (this piece actually uses a simple blues chord structure in retrospect)
1.12 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/459769 (first piece I wrote specifically for a game developer- the game is actually still in steady development and I am still writing music for it!!)
1.12 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/463660 + http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/464163 (first collabs)
2.4 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/482519 (I THINK this is around the time I got dumped... I can't remember straight; regardless, I think I was also listening to a CD of Balkan Gypsy folk music which had some KILLER violin playing)
2.4 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/487587 (100th composition on Newgrounds, excluding scraps and exclusive stuff)
2.7 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/494872 (the trope codifier of "epic" for me; this song has been in a lot of stuff)
2.9 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/504687 (I still have a borderline obsession with English horn... is there a hotline for this?)
2.11 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/511022 (I finally figured out how to make tempo changes and transitions sound good)
3.2 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/523942 (Calm music returns)
3.4 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/534514 (longest piece ever written at 11')
3.8 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/545245 (the circle loops upon itself- I collaborated with one of the people who inspired me to write music, Jon Babb/Bosa, and wrote one of my favorite harp and woodwind parts)
3.9 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/550894 (secret cameo for VS Xylophone sample library and first slightly decent sounding non-orchestral piece ever written)
3.12 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/558617 (first semester at Berklee brought about some weird creations)
4.0 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/561916 (the height of my musical achievement)
5.0 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/600210 (During years 4 and 5, I was busy working on Airscape, but did a few live recorded pieces such as this)
5.1 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/610055 (A rejected piece from Airscape, written during Y4. The audio ID number is just under twice the number of my first submission)
5.6 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/631754 (early test of a primitive VSCO 2 Alpha)
6.4 Years: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/698470 (did a series of brass quartets and quintets)

And that's up to now on there... since I don't really do any "finished" works anymore, most of my stuff is on Instaud.io (what I use for WIPs and the like).

Anyone else do this too? I don't mind if you splurge up my thread with your memories.

EDIT: I should also note, I didn't port any of VSCO 2 over to the old samplers (at least... NOT YET!), that's all running Pro Edition in Kontakt. However, I have experimented with getting some of it onto the ESI-4000 (my most coherent and user-friendly hardware unit), but the result isn't really any different from Kontakt, if anything worse since it lacks RAM and detail comparatively. I might try to get some stuff onto the Ensoniq Mirage since it is an 8-bit (or 12-bit?) mono sampler with analog filters (a distinctly "old school" sound), maybe some orchestral percussion since theirs is pretty poor, but that will require floppy disks, a lot of patience, and a hexadecimal conversion chart.

[Samulis]

This came out of my DAW today...
https://instaud.io/Q2i

It's sort of an evolution upon my recent ideas. I used the EMU woodwinds (I freakin' love that Cor Anglais) and the Boss DS-330 for the percussion and bass. The guest star is the just-sampled Zuckermann Harpsichord running in ARIA.

I also finally got a chance to use the Alesis MIDIVERB II that arrived in the mail last week- it is on everything except the Harpsichord. It is a VERY strange thing- it uses a 1/8" TRS (mono "headphone"-style jack) cable for POWER! The sounds is pretty good, although its algorithmic nature is very clear especially if you let it get too strong. I'm looking forward to getting to use the delay and reverse/fx stuff on it... sooo tempting...

I haven't a name for it yet, any thoughts?

[Nayrb]

(03-26-2017, 05:56 AM)Samulis Wrote: This came out of my DAW today...
https://instaud.io/Q2i

It's sort of an evolution upon my recent ideas. I used the EMU woodwinds (I freakin' love that Cor Anglais) and the Boss DS-330 for the percussion and bass. The guest star is the just-sampled Zuckermann Harpsichord running in ARIA.

I also finally got a chance to use the Alesis MIDIVERB II that arrived in the mail last week- it is on everything except the Harpsichord. It is a VERY strange thing- it uses a 1/8" TRS (mono "headphone"-style jack) cable for POWER! The sounds is pretty good, although its algorithmic nature is very clear especially if you let it get too strong. I'm looking forward to getting to use the delay and reverse/fx stuff on it... sooo tempting...

I haven't a name for it yet, any thoughts?

This is sweet! Literally; it's very sweet and tropical sounding. I feel like I'm watching myself run across rope bridges and under waterfalls, jumping impossibly high and collecting floating polygons. The drums are really cool sounding, too.

---

(03-19-2017, 11:43 PM)Mattias Westlund Wrote:

(03-19-2017, 11:04 PM)Nayrb Wrote: I'm the same way; I'm all for going back to one's roots! For one thing  it's a good way to see how we've progressed as individuals. I still love certain music that I loved when I was a kid but now I understand a great deal more about what made it so great. When I was a young kid (in the mid 90s) I was enamored by the creative possibilities of samplers and synths as I heard them in games and media, and even though I knew nothing about them and wasn't even a musician yet, I knew it was something I wanted to get into one day; and here I am! Though I'm not old enough to have too much practical experience with a lot of the older technology, I certainly have plenty of listening experience. So I, too, have a soft spot for the older stuff. I would say it's a lasting and genuine interest in the whole world of samplers and synths and virtual orchestration.

Well said. Even though I was definitely around and making music when hardware samplers were all the rage, I've never owned one. I was more into guitar amps and stuff in those days. It wasn't until I got my first PC back in the late nineties that I discovered the whole "faking an orchestra with midi" thing, and to this day it fascinates me. But I have to say that the obsession with realism in sample libraries has gotten completely out of hand, to the point where it's more about the tech than the music. I for one would rather listen to a well-crafted VO piece from the old days -- like something from Morrowind, where the notes and arrangement was most important, where limitations of the technology were worked around, and some suspension of disbelief was required -- than the trailer music tripe of today where the focus lies on playing bland music with ultra-realistic instruments.

I'm learning more and more though that going back to one's roots, exploring them and doing retro stuff is more about getting a greater understandning of the music that made you who you are as a musician rather than trying to stay in the past.

I think the "realism" aspect is something of a misconception on the part of the consumer, as well. You wrote in one of your articles that a lot of what we hear in a film score is produced along the same lines as pop or rock music. In that case, an Inception-esque brass section might be what you're looking for, but confusing it with being "realistic" is about the same as when my friends and I used to talk about "real drums" on our favorite albums back in high school. We were invariably talking about metal and we were so inexperienced we had no idea that metal (can be) some of the most unrealistic sounding music out there if you're talking acoustic characteristics of instruments like drums.

Morrowind remains a triumph of virtual orchestration. To me it is a great cross between the more produced "cinematic" sound and something more organic, being realistic in its approach to performance and arrangement, and as you say, its understanding of its own limitations and strengths. I suppose that is a heavy characteristic of Soule's sound in general.

[Samulis]

My mindset on the whole thing is that we've transcended the "realism" of the mid 20th century and gone on to "surrealism". Everything is bigger and wilder than life. Eventually this will collapse and be succeeded by another realistic movement, as is the way of art. I see a number of people moving in this direction (look at a long of singer-songwriter music, it's very intentionally under-produced in many cases) and it's only a matter of time in my mind until people start moving back against the sway of the "huge" sound as they begin to become disillusioned with it as I was.