What's with the whole Celtic treatment in the How To Train Your Dragon movies?

[Otto Halmén]

And not just the accents, but the music? I heard uilleann pipes, but no jaw harps or other typical Scandinavian instruments. I get that breaking the rules for creative purposes is a thing, but here it just feels like they didn't know the rules to begin with.

I saw HTTYD 2 this weekend, and saw the first one years ago when it came out. It was far from the worst, especially when it comes to sequels, but the cultural dissonance was something of an immersion breaker.

I'm all ears if you can enlighten me.

[Mattias Westlund]

Well... it's an animated movie about dragon-riding vikings who live on a fictional island in a fictional world. Wouldn't you say having celtic-esque music is pretty minor compared to that?

Just kidding. I know what you mean and I've wondered the same thing. Still... it's a fantasy world. I honestly don't know why they decided to call the protagonists "vikings".

[Mattias Westlund]

I just find it amusing when people complain about minor things in movies that have MUCH bigger issues, if you're going to go into the whole realism bit. Like someone watching Star Wars space battles and going "come on, there's no sound in space!" OK, seriously? But telekinetic space monks weilding plasma swords and alien cantina bands playing Charleston music, that doesn't strike you as a bit... odd?

[kneedeep]

There is a conflation of Celtic and Germanic stuff in popular culture, perhaps because no one knows what music the Germanic tribes played during the Iron Age. I guess "celtic music" sounds kinda romantic and folkish, so people go and paste it on anything from King Arthur to Vikings to the Nibelungs.

I'm much more bothered by the depiction of Vikings in most movies and TV series.

There are a few Icelandic movies that get it right, but most people seem to prefer dramatically horned helmets and polished steel and lots of muscle...

It's even worse in video games.

[Nayrb]

I've noticed that there is often a tendency in games and movies to give villages and farms a sort of Braveheart look and feel, too. No matter where they are supposed to be or what kind of culture the game is supposed to represent; if it's pseudo-European it will have stone huts, fur cloaks, tin whistles and bagpipes.

[kneedeep]

I would pay well for a realistic game set in viking age scandinavia, problem is there isn't one.

[peastman]

And they had Scottish accents. Also, I've noticed that dwarves in fantasy settings always seem have Scottish accents.

[Samulis]

Interestingly there is a bit of "Truth in Television" going on. Bagpipes are thought of as Irish and Scottish, but bagpipes were used widely across France, Italy, Spain, and the rest of the mainland Europe in the Middle Ages and onward (there's a whole section dedicated to the various styles of European bagpipes in Curt Sach's "The History of Musical Instruments"). In fact, Bagpipes date back at least as far as the ancient Greeks. Similarly, simple harps and primitive fiddles were also common in the Medieval and Renaissance eras.

A lot of Irish and Scottish music comes from an emulation of 16th and 17th century English Dance music, despite a rather strong dislike between the Irish, Scottish, Welsh, and English throughout history. That music in turn came from the Normans who conquered England in 1066 and brought their music and culture with them... The Normans were residents of northern France who, you guessed it, were originally what we would now call "Vikings"... hmm... COINCIDENCE!? I THINK NOT!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkQzq5fOEK4

This music over time was preserved and transformed to fit on the instruments available, and a large variety of regional forms emerged that are still very extant to this day.

Now, that's not to say "Vikings invented Celtic music" or something like that. What likely happened was a general amalgam of existing secular music with the secular music of the waves of various invaders and the ever-present religious music of the all-powerful Church, which culturally dominated Western Europe, even having some sway to the East as well. Most of what is written down (at least in terms of notation) from the period is religious music, because it had such an important social and spiritual position that it was necessary to preserve it. Folk music and dance music was not really written down until later on.

What we can say is that Celtic music is pretty infectious, and it's actually a lot more ubiquitous than one might think- there are pockets of Celtic music all through France, and even parts of Spain and Canada. In fact, much of the Appalachian musical tradition here in the United States originates from Irish laborers (not to mention that English dance music had come over at the same time as well)- and that in turn fed into all modern American popular music genres. In a way, Celtic music has found its way into just about every corner of the musical landscape, perhaps subtly, but in a great number of ways.

Of course to say, that's not to say I don't agree- sometimes things are just a bit too "uh... wut" to call tasteful or dig through history to try to justify (*cough cough*). That being said, I genuinely believe the score to the first film at least is one of the better scores of the past decade (I honestly have yet to find one I found more interesting... everything is just so cliche, even questionable things sound refreshing).

[Mattias Westlund]

Interestingly, no one really knows what kind of music the Vikings did play so it's all up to interpretation. What's normally thought of as traditional Swedish music (can't speak for Norway, Denmark and Iceland) is a fairly modern style and likely not related at all to the the music of the early middle ages. In fact, Swedish trad music has strong eastern influences, thanks to a wealth of Polish and other Eastern-European immigrants in (IIRC) the 18th and early 19th centuries. I think it's safe to say that whatever music the Vikings enjoyed, it proably didn't sound like that.

Also, traditional music from many parts of the world -- even where no cultural connection can be made -- tend to sound vaguely similar at times, due to the heavy use of pentatonic scales. So I don't really see a problem with taking liberties with this.

[Mattias Westlund]

As for so called "Celtic" music... be aware that this term is very much frowned upon in certain circles. I learned this the hard way years ago when I was learning to play tin whistle and spent a lot of time on a forum populated mainly by Irish traditional music purists.

I know, Celtic music is a catchall term for music from or inspired by the folk music of the British isles, but for a lot of people (including me) it brings cheesy, synth-laden ambient world music to mind rather than traditional music.