SSO 2.0

[peastman]

What are your thoughts on the best way of adding this?  Combining samples with and without added reverb in a single instrument is likely to sound odd.  Possibly it would be best to just add this as a new "solo violin 2" instrument, distinct from the old solo violin.

Quote:Do you think we should add looping? The arco ones are kinda long, I'm not sure it needs to be looped. Shouldn't be hard, since all the work is already done for us.

Do you know if these files have loop points in them?  I'm not sure how to check.

[kneedeep]

(03-28-2018, 11:46 PM)peastman Wrote: Are the "arco" samples the same as the existing SSO sustain samples?  They sound rather different to me, which might just be because the existing ones have reverb baked in and these ones don't.  I makes them sound like two different instruments though.

The arco vib one is the same as SSO Violin Solo, I think.

- The SSO one has that baked ambience and a loss of high end, which for a solo violin doesn't matter that much because it's in the front of the orchestra and therefore should have both more high end and less room sound. I think the untreated one is better - users can always EQ the instruments if they don't want the added presence.

- The SSO one has the attack pulled down like a fade-in effect. Mattias probably treated the samples in an audio editor. Again, the user can just use a transient designer plugin to remove the attack if they want that behaviour. Or you could duplicate that in SFZ and call it a "leggiero" variant.

- The SSO one is sampled in thirds or thereabouts. The new one has a sample for every note, except the high C6 - the samples end at B5, I left the C6 in to give people the option. For a solo instrument, I believe the added samples are justified because they really are all played differently.

Quote:Do you know if these files have loop points in them?  I'm not sure how to check.

The SSO2 one has loop points in the SFZ file, and since the arco vib is basically the same sample, those should be worth a try? I'm not sure if the wav file needs loop points defined too?

Quote:What are your thoughts on the best way of adding this?  Combining samples with and without added reverb in a single instrument is likely to sound odd.  Possibly it would be best to just add this as a new "solo violin 2" instrument, distinct from the old solo violin.

Maybe new instruments should be added with an SSO2 prefix to avoid messing up existing projects?

SSO2 Solo Violin.sfz
SSO2 Solo Violin (novib).sfz
SSO2 Solo Violin pizzicato.sfz
SSO2 Solo Violin pizzicato (novib).sfz

or thereabouts.

Probably rename the arco ones since that might just confuse people. They are sustain.

[peastman]

Probably best to just not worry about looping.  I don't know if the loop points from the original samples will work on these ones, and if I'm going to include all the chromatic samples, that isn't an option anyway.

[kneedeep]

So, about the instruments on the page Mattias linked above:


Woodwinds:

2016 2 Flutes: These are all-round excellent IMHO. Long sustain, no vibrato (for easily making a section perhaps?) and various cool articulations. The SSO1 solo flute is good, but these are really nifty and more useful to create solo lines with. Can also create a new "flutes sustain" section from the material.

2016 Philharmonia Bassoon: The staccato is excellent. The sustain is unfortunately really short and might have to be looped.

MIS Oboe example: Staccato oboes. Pretty bad IMHO. SSO oboes are better.


Brass:

2016 Horns Sustain and Rip: The sustain ones sound fake, like there is a chorus effect on them. The SSO1 horns sound a mile better to me. The rips sound alright, but lifeless.

2016 Horns Sustain FF No filter: These sound better than the above, but nowhere close to the SSO horns. The SSO ones have a metallic, realistic horn attack sound to them and at least some overtones; these are thick but lifeless.

2009 Horns Sustain: These are really nice mezzoforte horns, soft sounding. They're a different personality to the SSO horns, for a different application. They sound like the start up of the 2001 theme, or something from a Star Trek series theme. Soft but foreboding.

2011 Horns Sustain: These sound almost identical to the SSO horns, they might be the source, but they sound louder and more in your face. They're actually pretty good.

2011 Trombones Sustain (two similar sets): These are "FF" trombones where SSO's are softer sounding. The samples are a bit short, they would need to be looped, but they sound pretty good. The SSO trombones are a bit on the soft side, so these more brash sounding ones would compliment them very well. Looping needed!

2015 Trombones Sustain: These are labeled "FFF". They contain various sfz files.

- Trombones FFF A: These sound very good. They have to be looped though.

- Trombones FFF B: These sound fake. Pretty horrible

- Trombones mf-ff: These have 2 layers it seems, quiet and loud, but neither sounds very good to me.

- The other three are attempts to create chords. I don't think this is necessary.

2010 Trumpets Sustain: Brighter and more attack than the SSO ones. Seem really nice as an alternative voicing.

2011 Trumpets Sustain: Very similar to the 2010 ones, but different enough. Both seem very close to the SSO trumpets but more in your face.


Strings:

2009 Contrabasses Sustain: Nice, chromatically sampled basses. A lot quieter than the SSO ones. Could be included as an alternative voicing, nothing bad about them, but doesn't need all the individual samples. Never going to be the go-to basses.

2009 Celli Sustain: Sound a bit hollow and weak.

2009 Celli Sustain and Detache: The sustain ones sound almost identical to SSO. The detache ones are *amazing*. Because this is so close in sound to the SSO, the detache ones could easily be added as a new voicing to the celli sustain section.

2016 Cello_(MSLP)_Legato_and_Staccato:

- The cello legato sounds good, but more like marcato. Might just turn this into a marcato articulation. The staccato sounds OK.  Possible expansion for existing solo cello.

- 3 cellos sustain: These sound thin compared to the SSO1 Celli Sustain. Like, no contest. New instrument "3 cellos" for people who don't want the fat SSO1 celli?

2009 Violas Sustain: Sound just like the SSO ones minus the ambience/thickness. Alternative voicing?

2012 Violas Staccato: Broken sfz file. After fixing (pathname), sounds just like the SSO2 Violas Staccato. :-)

2011 Violins Tremolo: No sfz file. I assume these are identical to SSO2 2nd violins tremolo.

2014 Violins Tremolo: Identical to SSO2 1st violins tremolo.

2014 Violins Espressivo: Includes 1st and 2nd violins. These are very good, especially the 2nd violins one. Less harsh than SSO 2nd violins sustain. I see no problem with simply including them. Useful alternate voicing.

2014 Violins Trill: These are very good. They should be added as 1st Violins Trill Minor / Major.

2009 Violins Pizzicato: Sound rather identical to SSO 2nd violins pizzicato.

2009 Violins 1 Sustain: Similar to SSO1 1st vios, but with an audible attack and quieter. Not bad.

2009 Violins 2 Sustain: Similar (identical?) to SSO 2nd vios, but with less "treatment" and less noisy in the upper register. Quite nice.

2009 Violins Detache: Good sounding. Better than trying to mimic it with sustain violins. 2nd Violins Detache?

2009 Violins Sustain and Detache: Detache could be used as 1st violins Detache. Sustain is rather identical to 2009 Violins 1 Sustain, but sounds a bit fake.

2010 Violins Sustain and Detache: Has a round robin Detache sfz. The sustain is Ok sounding.

2009 Violins Sustain, Detache and Divisi: Attempts to create divisi. Not sure what to make of this.

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So. My suggestions:

SSO2 flutes and Flute 1/2 Solo: Include the 2 flutes as new SSO2 instruments. It's quite obvious. Make a new SSO2 flutes sustain section from the non-vibrato samples.

SSO2 Bassoon Solo: The staccato Philharmonia bassoon would be nice, but the sustain variant must be looped.

SSO2 Cello Solo: The (MSLP) "legato" and staccato solo cello would require some work. Personally I would create a marcato version from the "legato" set (the attack is pretty monstrous) and tone the attack down for a real legato version. That would result in a new solo cello with legato, marcato and staccato articulations. I wouldn't bother with the "3celli" sets. The rest of SSO has a "big orchestra sound" to it. These don't.

SSO2 horns MF and FF: Include the 2009 and 2010 horns as a new SSO2 instrument with mezzoforte and FF voicings. They are both great. Forget about the 2016 horns.

SSO2 Trumpets FF: Include either the 2010 or 2011 trumpets as a new SSO2 instrument marked as Trumpets FF.

SSO2 Trombones FF: The trombones are pretty good, but first need looping. I'd love one of them in SSO2 though, probably the 2011.

SSO2 Basses: Include the 2009 contrabasses as a new SSO2 instrument but not chromatically sampled.

Celli Detache: Include the 2009 Celli Detache sfz as a Celli Detache instrument. They are similar enough.

SSO2 1st and 2nd Violins: Include the 2009 Violins 1 and 2 sustain as new SSO2 instruments. Include the 2009 Violin Detache as 2nd Violin Detache, and the one from 2009 Sustain and Detache as 1st Violins Detache. Include the 2014 1st and 2nd Violins Espressivo here as well. Include the 2014 Violins Trill as 1st Violins Trill.

[peastman]

How do people feel about noise removal?  Normally I would avoid it, but some of these samples are really noisy.

[Samulis]

(03-29-2018, 08:40 PM)peastman Wrote: How do people feel about noise removal?  Normally I would avoid it, but some of these samples are really noisy.

Anything in particular? I'd be happy to run it through my denoisers- I have some really nice ones I've found over the years, and Audition is excellent for cleaning up all those pesky background click noises/footsteps/sirens/whatnot.

[peastman]

It's mainly the samples in the top half octave.  Listen to violin_arco_vib_b5.wav, for example.  I tried running it through the noise reduction in Audacity, but it wasn't able to do much for it.

[Samulis]

(03-30-2018, 03:51 PM)peastman Wrote: It's mainly the samples in the top half octave.  Listen to violin_arco_vib_b5.wav, for example.  I tried running it through the noise reduction in Audacity, but it wasn't able to do much for it.

On everything? Is there a particular set (listed above) that is affected or is it across many?

[peastman]

It's on most of the high pitched samples.  For the arco_vib samples it becomes really prominent around F5 and increases as you go up.  Similar for the arco_non_vib and tremolo samples.

It sounds to me like the really high pitched samples may have been recorded with the musician playing very quietly, then amplified a lot.  There seem to be two distinct kinds of noise in them.  There's something that sounds like super amplified bow noise.  But if you go to the "silence" at the end after the instrument has finished playing, there's also a softer static there.

[Samulis]

(03-30-2018, 11:01 PM)peastman Wrote: It's on most of the high pitched samples.  For the arco_vib samples it becomes really prominent around F5 and increases as you go up.  Similar for the arco_non_vib and tremolo samples.

It sounds to me like the really high pitched samples may have been recorded with the musician playing very quietly, then amplified a lot.  There seem to be two distinct kinds of noise in them.  There's something that sounds like super amplified bow noise.  But if you go to the "silence" at the end after the instrument has finished playing, there's also a softer static there.

Sorry if I'm not being clear... there are about 20 downloads on Mattias' site for files. I believe you are talking about one of those. Which one is it?

I have pretty crummy internet at the moment and my hard drives are starting to get pretty full- I haven't downloaded any of them previously and I'd like to download only what is needed.