make solo intrument into section?

[Paul Battersby]

(07-07-2016, 01:16 PM)Mattias Westlund Wrote: Unless there's some particular reason that you want to use VSCO2 only and no other samples, you could try this. Solo oboe from the MIS samples (2012 version) mapped as two instruments and truncated to sound like staccatos. Not very convincing on their own but layered with the VSCO oboe it kinda works.

Nope. No particular reason I need to use just VSCO2. The staccato oboe samples you provided + the staccato from VSCO2 will probably work. It's not something that will likely be very exposed or used often and will most likely be used (by me) as a passing articulation between sustained notes, although I'm always interested in the most realistic sound I can get (from free samples)

What I'm actually trying to do, is use the best from Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra, No Budget Orchestra and VSCO2 (since those 3 seem to be the best sources but I'm open to others that ideally are SFZ mapped already) and piece together something that sounds even better and is more fully articulated than any of them on their own, without needing to modify the samples (mostly).

I'm also looking for a credible way to turn a sustain sample into a staccato sample (when I'm desperate) It doesn't appear to me that I can use SFZ opcodes to speed up an attack, only slow it down so in that case I'd have to mess with the samples themselves.

[Mattias Westlund]

(07-07-2016, 01:55 PM)pbattersby Wrote: I'm also looking for a credible way to turn a sustain sample into a staccato sample (when I'm desperate) It doesn't appear to me that I can use SFZ opcodes to speed up an attack, only slow it down so in that case I'd have to mess with the samples themselves.

Actually you can, using the Offset opcode. Whether that will yield anything that resembles an actual staccato sample is anybody's guess of course, but it might be worth a try.

[Paul Battersby]

(07-07-2016, 02:12 PM)Mattias Westlund Wrote:

(07-07-2016, 01:55 PM)pbattersby Wrote: I'm also looking for a credible way to turn a sustain sample into a staccato sample

Actually you can, using the Offset opcode. Whether that will yield anything that resembles an actual staccato sample is anybody's guess of course, but it might be worth a try.

Ah. That's an idea. Maybe the "offset" plus a slight reduction to the attack so the staccato isn't instant. I can either set the offset to near the end of the sample, so the sample truly is as short as staccato or I can use "end" and decay to credibly truncate the end of the sample if necessary.

Something worth trying I think.

[kmlandre]

Another option is to use something like SPEAR (http://www.klingbeil.com/spear/) to shorten and lengthen any given sample slightly, then *slightly* detune the results.

Frankly, though, if you *really* want to get an ensemble style sound, it's best to have 3 different instances of your instrument and play them all in individually, the way a real ensemble would do it. The slight timing variance in note start/end is a huge part of cluing the brain into the fact that "there is more than one instrument playing".

You should also EQ things a bit differently for each instance, emphasizing different frequencies for each (and use a different EQ plugin and EQ "type" for each instrument). Using SPEAR you can even shift or eliminate certain frequencies from the individual sample's spectrum, creating even more variance, but that can get messy sounding if you make it too radical.

Oh, and something I've experimented with is pitch shifting instruments down a step or two with the pitch wheel, then shifting them back up to their correct pitch with a pitch shifting plugin. Sometimes it creates weird artifacts, sometimes it works well, especially if it's something just being used in the background...

Kurt

[Paul Battersby]

(07-07-2016, 05:58 PM)kmlandre Wrote: Another option is to use something like SPEAR (http://www.klingbeil.com/spear/) to shorten and lengthen any given sample slightly, then *slightly* detune the results.  

That looks like an interesting tool. I'll have to see exactly what it can do. I didn't see much documentation for it so I'll just have to play around with it I guess.

(07-07-2016, 05:58 PM)kmlandre Wrote: Frankly, though, if you *really* want to get an ensemble style sound, it's best to have 3 different instances of your instrument

Yes that would be my first choice, but not all samples and articulations are easy to find. I haven't heard many samples of solo (or section) Oboes playing staccato so I figured, once I find something (and I have), it would be great if I could use it multiple times if needed.

(07-07-2016, 05:58 PM)kmlandre Wrote: You should also EQ things a bit differently for each instance, emphasizing different frequencies for each

It will take some trial and error but I'm going to see how far I can get using just SFZ opcodes and using the available samples as is. SFZ includes a 3 band EQ so maybe I can use that.

(07-07-2016, 05:58 PM)kmlandre Wrote: Oh, and something I've experimented with is pitch shifting instruments down a step or two with the pitch wheel, then shifting them back up to their correct pitch with a pitch shifting plugin.

Maybe within an SFZ file I can use the "transpose" opcode to shift the pitch a semi tone and then use "tune" to put it back. Hopefully, internally it's a different algorithm being used for each opcode so I don't end up back where I started.

[kmlandre]

kmlandre Wrote:
Frankly, though, if you *really* want to get an ensemble style sound, it's best to have 3 different instances of your instrument

Then Paul Battersby wisely replied:
Yes that would be my first choice, but not all samples and articulations are easy to find. I haven't heard many samples of solo (or section) Oboes playing staccato so I figured, once I find something (and I have), it would be great if I could use it multiple times if needed.

----------

Sorry-   I wasn't very clear. (as per my usual ;-)).   I meant take 3 instances of the exact same patch and play it in 3 times.   EQing and treating each of those performances separately will go a long way towards creating the ensemble illusion...

-- Kurt

[Paul Battersby]

(07-08-2016, 01:01 AM)kmlandre Wrote: I meant take 3 instances of the exact same patch and play it in 3 times.   EQing and treating each of those performances separately will go a long way towards creating the ensemble illusion...

I think I understand. That would help but I'm looking to end up with a single patch that sounds like a full section so I only need to record a single performance each time.

I think if I play around with the "attack", "offset" and the EQ SFZ opcodes, I might be able to make a single sample sound like different players.

[Mattias Westlund]

Paul and others who might be interested, looky here.

[Paul Battersby]

(07-08-2016, 02:48 PM)Mattias Westlund Wrote: Paul and others who might be interested, looky here.

That's a good tutorial for solving a sample availability problem. Thanks for that.

[Mattias Westlund]

(07-08-2016, 03:28 PM)pbattersby Wrote: That's a good tutorial for solving a sample availability problem. Thanks for that.

No problem Paul, glad to be of help. Figured I might as well map the rest of the ldk1609 articulations as well and explain what I did while I was at it. Going back to working with sfz files makes me feel like this though: