(12-02-2021, 12:08 AM)Mattias Westlund Wrote: ...and while I'm at it, going on about future books and all that, perhaps I should give at least a passing comment about the elephant in the room.

Yes, this is oldschool, traditional, even very derivative fantasy fiction. All of that is wholly intentional. On one level, I want to give readers new to the genre the same feeling of excitment and immersion I got myself from playing tabletop RPG's or gamebooks in my teens.

On a different level: Not everything is what it seems. And that is all I have to say about the larger plot of the Darkmoon Saga. Stick around. It's going to be a fun ride.

(12-13-2021, 02:09 PM)Nayrb Wrote: Glad you're keeping at it with the writing!

(12-13-2021, 02:09 PM)Nayrb Wrote: I grabbed the second Deverry book, but haven't started it yet (loved the first one, though).

(12-13-2021, 02:09 PM)Nayrb Wrote: It was a great introduction to C.J. Cherryh, whom I had never read before. She's a great writer, and I think that was probably a very influential story in its day. I felt like I was reading about the Sithi the whole time, heh. It wasn't the most innovative story by today's standards, but I don't mind; it's a formula that works, and it's very well executed. Just judging by this one read and the covers of some of her other books, my conclusion about Cherryh is "it's expertly handled intellectual sci-fi meets sword and sorcery--but it's all cats."

(02-16-2022, 01:29 AM)Mattias Westlund Wrote: Here's a worrying thought I've had more than once during the creation of this project...

(02-21-2022, 11:42 PM)Mattias Westlund Wrote: It should be mentioned though that much like the RMM thread, I use this one as sort of a road diary. I will post my thoughts and questions and ideas -- and sometimes worries -- for the sake of getting them out of my system rather than expecting a clear-cut answer. That's not to say your in-depth responses aren't appreciated, Nayrb, they truly are! I just feel bad sometimes for posting random frustrated, insecure blurbs, and then you write these long and elaborate response to them that I oftentimes won't follow up up on. For what it's worth, you have earned yourself a place in the credits for this project for sure

(02-16-2022, 02:11 AM)Nayrb Wrote:

(02-16-2022, 01:29 AM)Mattias Westlund Wrote: Here's a worrying thought I've had more than once during the creation of this project...

I think it's more to do with how you handle the tropes. They are called "tropes" because they are common to the genre, so there's no harm in using them when others also do. The trick is to use them in ways that don't bore the reader, or remind them too much of someone else's work so they think you're a rip-off, or even to break them so thoroughly that they anger the reader for being too different. Obviously, that last bit should be taken with a grain of salt; a cultured reader will probably be interested in a race of evil Dwarves as an interesting departure from common expectations.

Recently I read three different books: Daggerspell, Count Zero, and the last of the Black Company books. In all of them the "dreamwalking" trope appears, but it's handled differently, has different rules and different dangers and uses in each one. There is a lot of similarity between Kerr's New-Agey magic spirit realm and Gibson's Matrix. I know, for instance, that Tad Williams was an influence on Martin, so he in fact borrowed the long winter from him. He popularized it and gave it such a treatment, though, that using that trope again could be tricky. But it's not impossible, of course. If you look back at the New Wave, for instance, the SF authors of the day were often just borrowing each other's premises and giving them different treatments. Check out Joanna Russ's We Who Are About To... to see a pretty bleak planetary adventure.

I think it definitely is necessary to have a firm footing in the genre you're writing in, though. And I would say you absolutely do. You can't possibly read everything, but the more you read, the more you'll encounter tropes and how they were treated differently or became canonized. This has been referred to, at least for SF, as the megatext. I think the concept applies to any genre, though.

Quote:I recently started reading Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun, and I am amazed at it and how the tropes are all there but handled so brilliantly you almost don't notice them at first. That said, I had only ever heard of it before finally getting around to it, and I consider myself to have a decent working knowledge of fantasy and SF.

Three things you can do if you're worried: 1.) Read some scholarship on genre fiction. Brian Murphy's Flame and Crimson is a really great study of sword and sorcery that gave me a lot of insight. You don't have to take all their arguments as gospel, but it does help to see timelines and learn about how one author might have influenced others. 2.) Read the books your favorite authors recommend. I've been consistently blown away by stuff like Gormenghast and New Sun. If Moorcock says it was a good read, you should probably give it a chance. 3.) This one ties into number 2: read things you don't like. If you don't like a book an author you admire recommended, give it a hundred pages or so and see what you like and don't like about it. You don't have to like it, of course. But you might learn some interesting tid-bit.

Back in 2008, I picked up a used copy of David Lindsay's A Voyage to Arcturus because I saw that Moorcock and others really felt it was important. It's a weird and clunky book, but now I'm writing a thesis on it (for better or for worse). It's not an easy read, and it took me about three or four times through (along with a lot of scholarly reading) to really understand it. It's even inspired some music on my end. I have a weird relationship with it. It's not a "favorite" in the way that Earthsea is, but it's up there for reasons other than some of my other favorites. It has a vibe, and I'm glad I stuck with it.

(02-21-2022, 10:24 PM)Mattias Westlund Wrote: Reading things I don't like is more often the norm I think At least there are precious few modern fantasy books I've picked up that I actually like. Most often I give up a few chapters in; sometimes I manage the first book of a series but feel no desire to read the rest of it. I rarely find things that truly capture me nowadays. I try to be analytical about it -- Why does this not appeal to me? What could I do differently in my own work? -- but it's hard. Separating the story from the storytelling in particular.