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Reverb Testdrive - Printable Version

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Reverb Testdrive - Viktor - 04-09-2017

While testing different Reverbs, i came up with a little composition, that goes through different orchestral settings, so I could see what does what the best.

After setteling with the Valhalla Vintage Verb, this is what i got https://soundcloud.com/iktorraus/morts-decision-wip-9417
[url=https://soundcloud.com/iktorraus/morts-decision-wip-9417][/url]
Feedback for the composition itself is highly appreciated, while I have to say I would even more like feedback regarding the mixing, the orchestration and the use of reverb.

Thanks a lot.

PS: Is there a way better way of getting soundloud links into the posts? I think i saw people having the player being embedded into the post before, but I didn't find any relevant buttons.


RE: Reverb Testdrive - sinaptica - 04-09-2017

I liked that piece a lot!
Pretty cool contrast between the melody on the woodwinds and the "heroic" brass.

In regards to mixing, I think it could use more separation between the sections, bring the strings more upfront, pan things a bit wider.

There are parts that sound a bit crowded, you could try a filter/eq in the reverb send, high-pass the signal and/or cut some of the frequencies in the low mids before the reverb itself. (Maybe you already did that?)  Blush
Also, processing the reverb output with a M/S capable equaliser can do wonders for spatial definition.

Anyways, good work!


RE: Reverb Testdrive - Mattias Westlund - 04-09-2017

That's a lovely track! I can definitely hear both influences you mention, and that brass theme is catchy as heck, found myself humming it a long while after I listened to the tune.

I agree with sinaptica though that more separation would be nice. I don't necessarily mind the strings being a little further back (especially since you're emulating Soule here, and that's pretty typical of his sound), but slightly more differences in Z-depth would be nice and help bring out some detail. Right now it almost sounds like everything has the same amount of reverb. Great work though, I really enjoyed it!

What libraries are you using BTW?


RE: Reverb Testdrive - Otto Halmén - 04-09-2017

Thirded! You have a really tasteful approach to working with huge-sounding virtual orchestrations. You gracefully subvert the chugga chugga trope with your carefully woven melodies, and the way you juggle instruments helps, in my opinion, create a sense of world-building and immersion. Smile

As to working with reverb, you seem to be doing well. If your samples already have a bunch of room ambience, getting the reverb right is often a bit simpler. The main thing to listen for, besides the sheer aesthetics of the reverb, is how it affects the perceived z-depth of the tracks you send to it. Try fading the send levels back and forth and see how the feeling of distance changes. It's a bit hard to explain, but you'll know it once you get it. Smile

If you wanna try a brand new reverb tailored for virtual orchestration, hit me a PM. In a few days, I'll be sending out an alpha of Luminous Reverb, with most of the final features in place.


RE: Reverb Testdrive - Viktor - 04-09-2017

Hey, thanks everyone for the critique and compliments!
(04-09-2017, 02:07 PM)sinaptica Wrote: I liked that piece a lot!
Pretty cool contrast between the melody on the woodwinds and the "heroic" brass.
Thank you, yeah thats what i wanna achive, while still merging them together.
(04-09-2017, 07:44 PM)Mattias Westlund Wrote: That's a lovely track! I can definitely hear both influences you mention, and that brass theme is catchy as heck, found myself humming it a long while after I listened to the tune.
Nice, yeah I wanna taylor earworms!
(04-09-2017, 02:07 PM)sinaptica Wrote: In regards to mixing, I think it could use more separation between the sections, bring the strings more upfront, pan things a bit wider.
(04-09-2017, 07:44 PM)Mattias Westlund Wrote: I agree with sinaptica though that more separation would be nice. I don't necessarily mind the strings being a little further back (especially since you're emulating Soule here, and that's pretty typical of his sound), but slightly more differences in Z-depth would be nice and help bring out some detail. Right now it almost sounds like everything has the same amount of reverb. Great work though, I really enjoyed it!
As Mattias seems to be a Jeremy Soule fanboy equel measure to myself he gets what I was going for, I want everything kind of sit more in the back, but I have still to work out how the brass sounds even more far away. I struggle right now with setting it more into the back without it being even more mushy, more mushiness and I can say goodbye to any sense of rhytmh. But it must be possible. I'm also trying the panning a bit more, it might give it a bit more depth.
(04-09-2017, 02:07 PM)sinaptica Wrote: There are parts that sound a bit crowded, you could try a filter/eq in the reverb send, high-pass the signal and/or cut some of the frequencies in the low mids before the reverb itself. (Maybe you already did that?) Blush
Also, processing the reverb output with a M/S capable equaliser can do wonders for spatial definition.
I did cut some of the low mids, especially in the strings, but i neglected the brass a bit in that regard, I think there also might be a lot of muddines working up there. And i defintly didn't think of equing the Reverb itself, gotta try that! Especially with M/S i might get more stereo.
(04-09-2017, 08:20 PM)Otto Halmén Wrote: Thirded! You have a really tasteful approach to working with huge-sounding virtual orchestrations. You gracefully subvert the chugga chugga trope with your carefully woven melodies, and the way you juggle instruments helps, in my opinion, create a sense of world-building and immersion. Smile
Thank you, that is a pretty nice compliment Big Grin It is weird, that is actually the most sparse Orchestration I've done so far, but it sounds way huger then everything I've done so far, thanks to Reverb. I actually like the Chugga chugga trope a lot, it just often lacks any interresting melodies, so that is really what i wanna achive, thanks a lot!
(04-09-2017, 07:44 PM)Mattias Westlund Wrote: What libraries are you using BTW?
For the Strings I used mainly the Kontakt Factory Libary, except Bassparts and some Cello Parts (like for example the more slow beginning) are Miroslav Philharmonik CE. But all the strings chugging are Kontakt. The Woodwinds and Brass are also Miro CE, and Percussion some stuff out of Kontakt Factory Libary (Mainly the Bassdrum and the Celesta), SSO (Mainly the timpanis and the Cymbal Cresendos), and one Tamtam out of VSCO2 CE. Ah yeah and the choirs and harps are also from Kontakt. And one Tyrell to thicken up the Bassdrum.
(04-09-2017, 08:20 PM)Otto Halmén Wrote: If you wanna try a brand new reverb tailored for virtual orchestration, hit me a PM. In a few days, I'll be sending out an alpha of Luminous Reverb, with most of the final features in place.
Oh jesus, yes, hit me up, please!


RE: Reverb Testdrive - Mattias Westlund - 04-09-2017

(04-09-2017, 11:13 PM)Viktor Wrote: As Mattias seems to be a Jeremy Soule fanboy equel measure to myself he gets what I was going for, I want everything kind of sit more in the back, but I have still to work out how the brass sounds even more far away. I struggle right now with setting it more into the back without it being even more mushy, more mushiness and I can say goodbye to any sense of rhytmh. But it must be possible. I'm also trying the panning a bit more, it might give it a bit more depth.

Heh, I wouldn't call myself a Jeremy Soule fanboi per se. Though I am highly familiar (and in love) with much of his music. I have kind of a love-hate relationship with the guy, because he's a fantastic musician with a knack for dramatic, atmospheric stuff. On the other hand I have read his facebook posts for years and I've heard all the war stories (kickstarting things he can't deliver while keeping the money, running a music service plagued with problems) and he generally appears to be kind of a pretentious asshole, albeit a talented one. Game music rock star #1.

Anyway, back on topic: if you're going for that type of sound I would suggest actually putting the brass in front of the strings. Trumpets and trombones project forward anyway so it's not a big stretch. For the ultimate Soule-style sound, load up a different reverb for horns and harp (!) to make them stand out. The Guild Wars 2 soundtrack raised my eyebrows in a lot of places where it sounds like the harp and horns have a distinct other ambience than the rest of the orchestra. But yeah, he makes it work. Walking the fine line between orchestral music and trailer music.


RE: Reverb Testdrive - Viktor - 04-10-2017

(04-09-2017, 11:50 PM)Mattias Westlund Wrote: Heh, I wouldn't call myself a Jeremy Soule fanboi per se. Though I am highly familiar (and in love) with much of his music. I have kind of a love-hate relationship with the guy, because he's a fantastic musician with a knack for dramatic, atmospheric stuff. On the other hand I have read his facebook posts for years and I've heard all the war stories (kickstarting things he can't deliver while keeping the money, running a music service plagued with problems) and he generally appears to be kind of a pretentious asshole, albeit a talented one. Game music rock star #1.

Anyway, back on topic: if you're going for that type of sound I would suggest actually putting the brass in front of the strings. Trumpets and trombones project forward anyway so it's not a big stretch. For the ultimate Soule-style sound, load up a different reverb for horns and harp (!) to make them stand out. The Guild Wars 2 soundtrack raised my eyebrows in a lot of places where it sounds like the harp and horns have a distinct other ambience than the rest of the orchestra. But yeah, he makes it work. Walking the fine line between orchestral music and trailer music.
Yeah, I heard some rather fishy things about Direct-Song too. I wanna buy his music, but i don't know if I want to support that company. Hmm yeah I mean as long as someone makes good music, that is like my priority. I wouldn't console him for moral advice, I think he mentioned that he thinks piracy is as bad as the holocaust. Pretty low.

I will try that out, I gotta listen to that soundtrack with that advise in mind. I mean that is the thing, his orchestra doesn't sound realistic (while the playing kinda does sound as realistic as samples can get, still amazed by Morrowind), it sounds really otherwordly. Too big for real life. But it's cool, as long as the effects serve a musical purpose and don't get just hollow. I think if a song is cool, catchy and musicly rich on one single midi track, there is nothing wrong with producing it pretty big. But making just a big production can't really cover the lack of music up. I'm kinda rambeling, but i think he is actually one with big productions and also good written songs (most of the time at last).