Scoring Central

Hi all,

I've spent the past nearly 20 years using just about every iteration of Windows and MacOS developed during that time. Is it just me or are these two main commercial OSes just getting dumber and dumber? Like, treating the user like they are an incompetent baby that needs their hand held just to print a document? Hiding control panels? Obscuring useful metrics and functions? Why do I need to edit the registry of my Windows 10 machine every other month to bypass some stupid lock-out Microsoft put to keep users from uninstalling bloatware or force users to use this or that app? Why are their app stores both a continual joke of shady or useless apps, bloat, and inconvenience? Why do they seem to relish installing or downloading updates at the exact moments when I am trying to do something useful with my system, without so much as asking for permission? Why do both companies seem to take particular delight in collecting every fragment of personal information at every opportunity? 

The more and more I grapple with this, the more encouraged I am to explore Linux. I've tried out ElementaryOS a bit and really enjoyed it, although it's fairly simplistic; Pop!OS is pretty cool looking too. I'm honestly not an advanced enough user to be comfortable with console windows or command lines more than once every few months/years, but, like... can't there be a happy medium of an OS? Something where the user can set and configure the system in a bajillion different ways with a GUI without their hands tied behind their backs for that simple luxury? Why does it seem like the choices are either "baby's first computer super-cuddly safe space GUI-based OS" or "YOU WILL BRICK YOUR SYSTEM IF YOU TYPE ONE WRONG CHARACTER, BUT WE ALSO DIDN'T BOTHER WRITING A USER MANUAL CONSOLE-BASED OS"?

The largest impediment for me is the question of drivers. MacOS' Core Audio is fantastic, reliable, and ultra low-latency. ASIO on Windows is buggy but does the job when it needs to. Anyone on Linux have experience using common audio hardware (e.g. interfaces, MIDI keyboards, etc.) on them? It seems like most audio hardware companies don't release software control panels for Linux, but perhaps through WINE or something like that a Windows version might be used, or there are a few exceptions? I quite like Ardour (I've been using its commercial offspring, Mixbus, for a few years with good results), so the DAW portion seems quite reasonable now.

Of course Adobe and several other major 'professional tools' companies in their "infinite" "wisdom" have not yet released any of their products in a Linux-compatible version, even though there are significant movements in the scientific, IT, and even video game industry to consider different OSes, so I have some hopes that will change... or other companies will capitalize on the shift and outdo those too stubborn to act.

Any thoughts on this?

Wow, a lot to unpack here. I'll try to keep it concise.

I have been using Linux in some fashion or another for over 15 years. At first the appeal to this college tightwad was that I could install it free of charge, and it didn't have some monopolistic company's hands all over it. Over the years, the appeal changed more into the fact that I could really dig into the operating sytem. I compare it to a guy who drives a '67 Jeep CJ: Sure, it's quirky, and the thing breaks down sometimes, but when it does, I know how to open it up and fix it. I have no clue what to do when things go wrong in Windows or MacOS.

I have tried a LOT of distributions over the years. These days my favorite is ElementaryOS. I decided that ultimately I just want something that mostly stays out of the way and doesn't require lots of configuration to get it to behave in a way that I like. Pop!OS seems like it could be nice too; if I understand correctly both projects have the same lead developer, so they share some infrastructure, but Pop!OS is sponsored by System76. As an aside, I have purchased hardware from System76 twice and was happy with it both times.

As far as audio production goes, a big hangup that you may experience is that your Windows-native VSTs may give you trouble. There are some ways to get them working, but I found it to be a big headache so I decided to use only Linux native VST and LV2 plugins a few years back. That's what inspired the development of Dragonfly Reverb. With that said, I know many people who happily use Windows VSTs on Linux. These days I think LinVst is a popular wrapper.

I'm using a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (1st gen) and haven't had any trouble. Generally speaking, as long as an interface is class-compliant you should be able to use at least its basic features. It seems like other folks are successfully using Behringer and M-Audio interfaces. I also have been following a thread about the development of drivers for some of the more advanced Focusrite interfaces, with things like the per-channel software mixing matrix and such. Generally you can ask about specific hardware at LinuxMusicians.com and usually get an answer.

I'm glad to hear that you like Ardour. I use it almost exclusively, except to test Dragonfly Reverb on other DAWs. Just a heads up, REAPER also runs natively on Linux now if you weren't already aware.

I went and looked at ElementaryOS... and I'm now tempted to switch over to it. Privacy, simplicity, cleanliness, security? These are all very tempting!

The big question for me ofc is if sforzando and Kontakt/Native Access work on it. If, in the realm of composition/production, it can handle everything about as well as W10 does, I'll be happy. (I really, really hope it does, too, because I, too, really dislike Windows 10.)

I'm also very interested to hear people's experiences on this. My own computer is a Mac, but I've been using Linux for work for years (mostly Ubuntu). I've been getting increasingly irritated with the way Apple is steadily locking down their platform and making it harder to install software from any developer that doesn't pay them a ransom, so there's a good chance my next computer will run Linux. Music software is one of the big issues I still need to resolve before doing that. I currently use Logic Pro X, but that's unlikely to ever move to any other OS. Ardour and Reaper both look like possible alternatives, but I haven't tried them out yet.

I've heard reports of people running Sforzando under WINE. No idea how well it works though. Of course LinuxSampler is also an option, though at least on Mac it's really buggy and has a terrible UI (or rather, a choice of two terrible UIs).

Two new options of open-source SFZ players are LiquidSFZ and sfizz. I have been using sfizz, and it gives me better results with VSCO and VPO than LinuxSampler did. (There are a few SFZ opcodes that LinuxSampler doesn't properly handle). Some people report trouble trying to use Sforzando on Linux.

I think the setup of:
ElementaryOS
Ardour or Reaper
sfizz
Dragonfly Reverb

Would be a pretty amazing start to a nice, clean music composing experience.

It's great to know class complaint interfaces should work, and using some wrappers to get some Windows/MacOS-based plugins in. Maybe I'll put together a cheap 'test machine' to experiment around with these options.

For professional work, I do think getting Kontakt to work would eventually be necessary, which might be tricky, but for most stuff SFZ files can do just fine.

(06-20-2020, 02:45 AM)Samulis Wrote: [ -> ]I think the setup of:
ElementaryOS
Ardour or Reaper
sfizz
Dragonfly Reverb

Would be a pretty amazing start to a nice, clean music composing experience.

Yes! I start almost every new music project using the trifecta of Ardour/sfizz/Dragonfly, and then add other plugins as needed. I will say that the audio production situation on Linux is significantly better now than it was years ago. Occasionally there is a pleasant surprise of some developer releasing Linux-native plugins. Some examples are Airwindows, Auburn Sounds, and Pianoteq.

(06-20-2020, 02:45 AM)Samulis Wrote: [ -> ]For professional work, I do think getting Kontakt to work would eventually be necessary, which might be tricky, but for most stuff SFZ files can do just fine.

I have read anecdotes of Kontakt working on Linux. It seems like a pain, and I haven't tried it myself, but the tail end of this thread has some good hints, and the people who most recently posted would probably be willing to help walk you through it.

I'm considering simply setting up a dual-boot w/ W10 and Kontakt etc. on one drive and ElementaryOS and everything else on another. It seems much simpler overall. In many ways it may actually be better for my productivity because needing to boot my computer again to switch over to music would be making a commitment.

What about just running Windows in a VM? That's a lot easier than having to reboot to switch operating systems. Of course, neither approach would let you use Kontakt as a plugin in a DAW running on Linux.

And therein lay the central issue - almost all of the sample libraries I use are Kontakt libraries.

It's true, a VM would be easier, but rebooting and switching operating systems forces me to make a commitment of time to composing, which I think would be good.

They say of working at home that you should have a workspace separate from your living space. Having separate computers set-up around the house is impractical financially and spatially. So, rebooting to switch OSes means that I can have something like that separation, through digital means.